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which side are you on?
is it just me or is it the real world when some gay men choose to be conservative? i was a naive to think that all gay men would want to be liberal but experience has taught me otherwise. i just want to know, with sincerity and an open, non-judging mind why someone would be a conservative? i would love to hear all answers and personal experiencs, as i want to be a social worker one day, i think staying up to date and looking at different social groups at every angle. does that make sense? anyways, would love to hear from you all!!
Views: 13
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tony on -
I too have a few conservative friends that are gay or bi, I tell them why would you want to vote for someone that thinks you don't even have a right to live let alone be happy.
Hugs
Tony
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Permalink Reply by gilly sinlow on -
exactly! I understand privacy and keeping yourself happy but this is your legal rights as a human being! I cant just sit by and let other gay men become ignorant and feel uninspired to stand up for our basic rights like anyone else. I have had a few relationships and two of them werent even based on sexual relations. It was emotional and spiritual connections that kept us together. Im am happily monogomous (monogamous?) with my long term boyfriend and someday, maybe I do want to marry him, have kids and experience what my mother has been through with me,what my grandparents have been through, what my straight siblings are experiencing as I write this...
I feel it is insane to believe that Consevatives are a step forward for us. Economy or not, gay rights will not happen unless enough people realize that we really have no social standings, that we are still considered second class citizens in every rural community. We should be ourselves anywhere we go in the USA and Canada. Freedom of speech, freedom to love, freedom for ourselves... as Obama has proclamed in one of his speeches "Yes We Can" Let us live up to that.
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Permalink Reply by Marco de Mortelune on -
Having been a youth worker in the past I can tell you that after a few years at the 'coalface' many of your liberal ideals will be severely challenged.
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Permalink Reply by Richard Poole on -
im from the uk and we do have conservative parties, but its not acceptable to be anti gay anymore in british politics. it was very different back in the 1980's. but today if a gay person told me they supported the conservative party, it would bother me at all. however i have met gays and lesbians who are racist, which really shocks me, but ignorance can be found in every social group.
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Permalink Reply by gilly sinlow on
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i agree completely with how politics have changed. yet i cannot shake the feeling that conservative parties are the "open secret" parties against progress of minorities, women and the gay community. its quite the idea to vote for a party that has been in the past an assanine power that is wanting to keep everything middle class, down the narrow and serving to capitalist ideology of the rich getting richer and poor getting poorer. :( it is also sad to say that liberals have the same effect in canada as they have shown themselves in canadian politics to be lazy, fruitless and empty promised corporate bum kissers! *sigh* i think i will take a chill pill and remember that this question was to bring points to the table as to why people would participate in actively degressing their own rights and sociologically putting gays into the second class citizenship.
great opinions though! i would to hear more from people in america, canada and many many other countries ^_^
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Permalink Reply by cummouth4u on -
I do not believe that being gay or bi is a conservative or liberal issue. I am a conservative and there is nothing against human rights in my/our belief structure. You have the religious right, which I am not religious, that is a fringe group with ideals that are not representative, but create the image that you see.
Until I opened my eyes, I could not understand why I could not be Bi if I was not a Communist/Socialist, which was what I saw as the typical liberal.
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Permalink Reply by gilly sinlow on
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Hey thanks for your input! I have been a lot of social policy and big business and how the economy can be a driving force for everyone. I understand completely the very independant ideology of your statement. However, big business does not take into account the reality of people and their lives. For instance, if a mother has another child coming, she will most likely NOT get her position back with the company. She will likely be told she can apply again but will not be told they will give her job back. Essentially, her act of child birth is not profitable and not effective for the company. They would also need to pay her child care or spend extra money on a woman whose career will be undermined by a man who can her job. Also, this man will not have to take leave for his child as he doesn't bear the child; thus making the woman less appealing to bring back to the company.
I bring this example forth as a means to display an unfortunate downside to big business. It is not to say that all big businesses do not create family friendly environments but rather how much more "effective and cost friendly" it is to promote men to higher positions as they do not get pregnant.
What if a gay man wants to donate blood to help his mother? According to Canadian Blood Services, if one is gay, one cannot donate blood indefinitely. Not taking into account monogamy, not taking into account protection during sex and not taking into account the practices a man may do. What if he has been in a relationship for six years and has used protection? What if a gay man has never had anal sex? Conservative fundamentals do not protect diversity nor does it create diversity. It protects people who were born into money or a good life. I came from a poor family and have fought to get to where I am. I do not wish it upon others as it is a sad life. I believe in socialism as I believe that living in an Elite Country, we are obligated as human beings to help each other out and not oppress people who are different from us.
I've been called down, attacked and seriously threatend all becuase I was born in the wrong race, becuase I like the wrong sex and even speak the wrong way ( I have an effeminate quality to my voice). I have overcome all that but I would want others to have a safer life, a life where the Gov't cared about its people in the lowest common denominator. They are the people who do the grunt work. They are the ones that make life work on minimum wage and yet they are told they arent good enough to have a good life because they arent white, they arent straight or even that they dont want a family becuase of their "gay" lifestyle.
I do believe that a world can be lived in with conservative gay men and women, but I just wanted to make sure they are doing it for the right reasons. I am glad that many of you have shared your thoughts and I strongly believe in difference of opinion. I am pretty radical, if I were going into office, a Tory would not be the end of the world if that Tory knew how to keep the Gov't from going into Recession.
If anything, I am canadian and I can be the first to say I have no clue what Gay Culture means in America. Maybe that's the next progression of this discussion? :)
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Permalink Reply by gilly sinlow on
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One day we will meet and make sweet music about all the issues we have discussed thus far. I would love to pick your head more than ever now! I am always up to be taught things form other people. How am I going to learn to better place myself in the bigger scheme of things without the golden knowledge of you and many like you?
I am tired lol Will respond to your essay when I am more awake and can write with better tact.
Cheers
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Permalink Reply by Ariez on -
hi gilly...for me, conservativeness is really part of gay character. it could be the result of shy and fear to other who may tease gays.keep safe
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Permalink Reply by gilly sinlow on
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WOW
How do you deconstruct Ariez's satement? lol I would think gay people would act out differently in ways like how they talk, how they treat other gay people and how they view their worlds.
In the world of Prince George, BC, Canada, Conservatives views would be taken into account but it never materialized as a Tory Political View. You know what I mean? I think the concept of a conservative gay person can be very well seen as a being shy or having a fear of others.
That instead of politicizing the views of conservative gay men, it just becomes a truth of the person - not the facade the "GAY" label encompasses. this statement is simple in nature but I think it reflects the important complexity of societies and their belief systems. I feel like this statement grounds the issue on two levels: We are human and that we want what is best for our world view.
This instance: Safety. I think being political has a much higher chance of social disruptance and that voicing one's opinion can be both helpful and locking.
Defense mechanisms: I like that it has been mentioned. I am learning a lot about defence mechnisms and how it reflects a person's opinion by means of behaviour. If a pro - life person heard me say I vote Pro - Choice, said person may become stricken and tightened in stature. That would mean I would look at him and realize I said something he did not like and that what ever I say next will either inflame said person or calm him down by retracting on what I said like "But I realize it is a touchy issue and can see calid points of this debate".
That's all I have for the night :)
Keep in touch!
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Permalink Reply by ky doc on -
Conservatives in politics have been labeled by liberals for political purposes just like most people think the rich are Republicans when statistics prove otherwise. Look at the money Liberals spend and much of it is from the our taxes. Real Conservatism has little to do with sex lives.
EQUAL RIGHTS under the law--not special rights.
I Have always been conservative in politics because I've always had to work (started at 9) for what i've gotten. My mother worked while my father was sick. Her take home pay was $2 less than if she stayed home and "collected." We had no insurance.
I enjoy playing with men and women, but on my own terms. Real Conservatives want the government out of their pay check, out of there bed rooms, and believe most people should work to live.
Redistribution of anyone's cash is not the government's job. Rich or poor - all should pay the same % for defense and roads and schools. Because a person has made himself more valuable in the market place does not mean he should contribute more than his fair share based on the same % as the man who works for minimum wage.
No illegal aliens should be tolerated or given a "crumb" except a box lunch on the way to the border. Any illegal guilty of a crime should be immediately bussed to the nearest board and "dumped." Any illegal demonstrating should be rounded up and sent home to demonstrate. All government employees and members of congress should abide by the same rules especially regarding health, insurance and pensions that citizens working in the private sector have--most buy all or part of their own.
Basically, the government has no right to determine who does what to consenting adults. The marriage rights only come into play when idiots give some people privileges and not others. If two gay guys want "marital privileges" the government has no right not to grant them or better yet get rid of all the privileges for everyone. At one time like all social programs, it sounded good to help families raise children by giving them a tax break...well 2 men or 2 women can raise good children--I know more than a doze doing it.
There are no "gay rights". Gay people should not be discriminated against or given any special rights. If a gay man and a straight man are killed--they are both dead and why it happened is not the governments job. The job is to punish the perpetrator. And i believe in the death penalty. You take a life with no good reason then you pay with yours...you don't live, eat and play on my children's dollars behind walls.
Americans need fewer laws and "rights"--all people should be under "equal rights."
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Permalink Reply by gilly sinlow on
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I like the idea of Equal Rights as opposed to the idea of special rights. I think that when a person creates a social problem such as describing women, gays and people with disabilities as second class citizens, it is to bring awarness to people who have barriers that governments must look at so that everyone has equal rights. The points brought forth are very well articulated and gives a voice to people who DO feel that government is interfereing with a person's finance.
Consider the following:
A young man from Mexico runs away from his home and life. He wants to live a more prosperous life and wants to be feel good about himself. He does not have the money however or the access to resources that can assist him and getting a green card. He does not want to live in poverty anymore and has been systematically looked over due to legislations that may limit his ability to look for work.
This young man finds out that anyone in America can get a good life if they work hard - which he is willing to do. But again, no access to proper resources. He feels desperate and wants to better his life but social barriers are set up against him. To rebel and take his life into his own hands, he takes the risk to cross the border and find work in America. He does not want to be poor his whole life.
But certain American laws, like the new legislations in Arizona are regressive in nature:
From: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/24/us/politics/24immig.html
Gov. Jan Brewer of Arizona signed the nation’s toughest bill on illegal immigration into law on Friday. Its aim is to identify, prosecute and deport illegal immigrants. Gov. Jan Brewer signed the bill, SB 1070, on Friday. The move unleashed immediate protests and reignited the divisive battle over immigration reform nationally.
Even before she signed the bill at an afternoon news conference here, President Obama strongly criticized it.
Speaking at a naturalization ceremony for 24 active-duty service members in the Rose Garden, he called for a federal overhaul of immigration laws, which Congressional leaders signaled they were preparing to take up soon, to avoid “irresponsibility by others.”
The Arizona law, he added, threatened “to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans, as well as the trust between police and our communities that is so crucial to keeping us safe.”
The law, which proponents and critics alike said was the broadest and strictest immigration measure in generations, would make the failure to carry immigration documents a crime and give the police broad power to detain anyone suspected of being in the country illegally. Opponents have called it an open invitation for harassment and discrimination against Hispanics regardless of their citizenship status.
What I am trying to connect with rights and the of Conservative behaviours is that Conservative Political ideology does not progress groups identified in minorities. There is strong evidence that support the blunt, shrewd view of the Republicans that all of them are white, upper middle class people who never experienced oppression as daily as many people who are gay, who live disability or even of color.
However, I will not blame a party for the way I am. I will not a blame a party for demonizing what I believe in. I realize it is easy to blame Liberals for how it portrays the Republicans but is not ethical. Political warfare should focus on issues that the country at large want to worry about.
There are many things I agree with in this post but I cannot stand by as humans are called "aliens" and how its not the Republicans responsibility to portray a better image of the party. I am from Canada but when I look more and more into the American political landscape, I see a range that differs in some ways but are alike in many, upon many ways.
For instance, "Not In My Backyard!". I find that many people do not want to contribute to the greater good and that what they work for, should be kept for themselves. If that is the case, then why are people looking for help and no one answers their pleas? If people were as good in nature as many would like to believe, then why are people wanting to live a better life instead of helping out family members who need it? Why do we need social workers if people believed we can take care of each other. We are selfish creatures in elite countries that do not face day to day struggles as intense as Africa. We do not ask if we are going to die today from hunger, we do not worry if we can live long enough to see our children grow up and we do not wonder if we, as a people,will see what democracy is like if wars stopped.
Rich or poor, certain groups of people do not have the luxury of social acceptance as others would. Which is why we have advocates for people who are emmigrating and need help. Which is why we have people who must realize there are barriers for people with disabilities, barriers for women (wage for example) and barriers for gay men and women who only want to live a life that is a human right that govenrment legislation so far excludes.
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